Standing Out in a Crowded Market: Matt Kovacs Shares Blaze PR’s Unique Approach | Restaurants & Franchises Series

How can a PR agency elevate lifestyle brands and navigate the evolving media landscape through creativity, adaptability, and strong relationships?

In this episode, Matt Kovacs, president of Blaze PR, shares his expertise on transforming a boutique agency into a powerhouse known for its innovative strategies and award-winning culture. Despite the challenges of a shrinking media pool and the rise of AI, Matt’s unwavering commitment to delivering results and fostering genuine connections has been instrumental in Blaze PR’s success.

Matt discusses the importance of understanding clients’ unique goals and leveraging data-driven insights to demonstrate the value of PR efforts. He also emphasizes the power of unconventional strategies, such as creative stunts and partnerships, to generate buzz and build brand awareness in a crowded market.

As a dynamic and insightful leader, Matt aims to inspire other PR professionals to embrace change and continually adapt to the shifting media landscape. He shares his experiences navigating the challenges of measuring success in PR, building strong relationships with journalists, and maintaining the human element in an increasingly AI-driven industry.

Matt sees Blaze PR as more than just a way to generate media coverage – it’s an opportunity to create a positive impact in the lives of his employees, clients, and the communities they serve. Through his agency’s efforts, he hopes to continue elevating lifestyle brands and setting new standards for excellence in the PR industry.


Mentors and resources that inspired Matt:

  •  The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell – a book that reinforces the concept of putting in the necessary hours to achieve success and expertise in one’s field.

Tune in for valuable insights on navigating the world of PR, building strong client relationships, and adapting to the ever-changing media landscape from Matt Kovacs, a seasoned expert in the field.




Welcome to another edition of inspired stories where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes, how they’ve overcome adversity, and explore current challenges they’re facing.

Anthony Codispoti (09:20.97)
Welcome to another edition of the inspired stories podcast where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they’ve overcome adversity. My name is Anthony Cotaspodi and today’s guest is Matt Kovacs, president of Blaze PR. They are a boutique agency that partners with lifestyle brands who want to cut through the noise and take a bigger bite out of the market. They work with their clients to reveal the brand’s relevant story and then work with their media connections and key influencers.

to communicate that message to the right audiences. Their commitment to data analytics allows them to make quick, informed decisions on behalf of their clients. Blaze has a particular strength in the quick service restaurant space, which we’ll hear more about. They’ve received multiple awards, demonstrate their leadership in consumer PR, including PR Week, LA Business Journal, and Inc. Best Places to Work. Matt was also named PR Executive of the Year at the 2015 PR World Awards.

And before we get into all that good stuff, today’s episode is brought to you by my company, Adback Benefits Agency, where we offer very specific and unique employee benefits that are both great for your team and fiscally optimized for your bottom line. One recent client was able to add over $900 per employee per year to their bottom line by implementing one of our proprietary programs. Results vary for each company and some organizations may not be eligible. To find out if your company qualifies, contact us today at adbackbenefitsagency .com.

Now back to our guest today, Matt, president of Blaze PR. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Matt Kovacs (10:54.607)
Hey, thanks for having me. This is gonna be fun.

Anthony Codispoti (10:56.456)
Yeah, so Matt, in your own words, tell us what makes Blaze PR special. Lots of PR companies out there. What are you guys doing different?

Matt Kovacs (11:03.887)
Yeah, you know, I think what’s interesting and we did this exercise with our clients and said, you know, hey, you know us, you love us. Tell us why, give us that sort of word cloud. And I think a lot of these things really shine through. I think, you know, number one, they all said, you’re obsessed with us. You know, you live and breathe our brands. You know, you’re, you go to the stores, you, you know, make sure that you see, you know, you’re, you’re fixing the shelves with our brands. You go to the restaurants, you go to the, you know, the, the applications, the retailers, you want to make sure, you know, what’s going on out there in the real world for us. I think the other thing is that we listen.

There’s so many agencies that don’t listen. They just, they have their playbook and they do it and they keep going. And it’s, it’s not a two way communication. And we’re very much, I think really participatory in this. And we want to make sure that we’re educating the brands as well. And then the last thing is that these days, especially it’s the data part, it’s the analytics. We want to make sure that, you know, our, our day -to -day contacts that they can take back the phone book size, you know, clip book, but also all the numbers to say, look what Blaze and us are doing together.

that really can help drive impressions and numbers in ways that they understand that, yes, PR can be that sort of gray science of elements, but it’s a way that they feel confident that the activities are happening because you can do a lot of results or do a lot of activities, but if the results aren’t happening, there’s a different take from that. And I think we try and understand that and really work closely with the brands that really separates us from others.

Anthony Codispoti (12:28.904)
So I’m glad you mentioned that because that’s a question I wanted to ask. You know, PR traditionally is this area, it’s kind of hard to measure the ROI, measure the results. So how do you guys, what’s your approach to that?

Matt Kovacs (12:42.639)
You know, I get asked this probably every day, but in a good way, because I think that, you know, people really appreciate that. And I think there’s a couple of different paths. I think number one is when we start with brands and even annually with clients, we’ll look at it and say, let’s put some KPIs out there. Let’s say, what are our goals? What are we trying to achieve? You know, is it a sales driver? Is it about investment? Is it about having the brand acquired? What are we looking for? And we have a number of, you know, case studies and storylines of clients that were acquired.

And the PR program was part of that lift. So I think that’s a big part of what we look at. We’re fortunate these days that we subscribe to a number of the different services online that can really track traffic as well as clicks and read -throughs of these articles. And I think also you look at it from analytics that can give you some of the aspects of, okay, are we being heard? Is the voice changing? Are we seeing the tides moving that way? So I think we really try and say, okay, here’s how we can measure it. We set our goals.

We do our monthly reports, you have your impressions. As coverage comes in, we really share that. We also came up with a system, you know, we live in a five star society, you know, the movie was a four, it’s a three. Everyone understands that. You look at Yelp or whatever. So we put together in those initial discussions, if you wanted to have the most perfect placement in the world, that would be a five. What are those five things that you want in there? You know, is it a picture? Is it a website? A call to action? Is it your tagline? Whatever those five things are,

So we evaluate those as placements come in real time. And the goal is that within that vernacular that people understand that, if we say, hey, this was a piece of coverage, it was a three, pretty much people internally would say, okay, it had most of our things we were looking for. The goal obviously is to get more four and fives, but it’s a way that we look at it. And it’s part of that discussion of understanding that aspect that they can say that we’re starting to have, if we start out, those elements aren’t working.

So I think that’s one level. The second thing we do is when we start a campaign is a media perception audit. As the brands are living in the bubble and they think, you know, they know what the consumer knows and they know what their brand’s trying to do, we take that time out. We steal from our parent company that does a lot more public affairs aspects and we do these focused interviews. And we’ll put a series of questions together, the brands approve, and we go and then we actually flip the script and we interview media. And we compensate them for their time, we respect and honor that. We don’t want them to feel like we’re…

Matt Kovacs (15:00.495)
just getting information for free. And we say, okay, here’s those questions. Many of them, we’ll go on the phone or we’ll do a Zoom. Some of them are like, hey, I’m busy, just email me and I’ll shoot you back the answers. But it’s a way for us to get data on this campaign before we even started. And so we’re able to then garner all the information. We put all the verbatims together. We have an analysis of what’s going on and we present that to the brand. So you’re saying, okay, here’s, you may think the media thinks this of you or you’re the gatekeepers.

But here’s what’s really out there. And here’s some ideas that we need to do to get to where you think you are. And I think that’s, you know, when you look back to the point of PR, we’re not as data heavy as other, you know, advertising or other disciplines where you can measure and track, but it’s a way that we’re trying to put some of those benchmarks in place. Then we can say, okay, we’ve moved the needle. We’ve done this. You know, we were able to attribute those back to the campaign itself. And it’s really interesting because many times, you know, we’ll get a call or we’ll get hired, you know, the CEO, someone told us we need a PR agency.

And then it’s like, that’s where they stop. So we have to finish that and help them go through that goal. And the data really helps and they’re able to attribute it and give that some of the lift internally.

Anthony Codispoti (16:07.397)
That’s really interesting. I hadn’t thought about that, but it makes a lot of sense that you want to sort of lay the groundwork for what is the status quo. Where are we now? How do people perceive you? Have they ever heard of you? If they do, what’s their impression of you? So we know this is our starting point, and here’s where we have to kind of bend the conversation.

Matt Kovacs (16:25.263)
In many ways, it’s also the potential. Where could it go? Where does media think it should be or could be? And we try and ask holistic questions about, okay, talk about the category itself. Because they’re the ones getting pitched and spammed and all those things within the category. So they’re hearing and understanding different things. So it’s a good way to get that information from them before we start becoming part of that issue.

Anthony Codispoti (16:47.045)
Actually, it brings up another good question is, you know, I’m kind of curious. How do you cut through the noise? Right? I mean, lots of PR companies out there, lots of people trying to do PR on their own. They subscribe to this list or that, you know, they scraped an email list. They’re bombarding people on LinkedIn. Like, you know, why is, why is, you know, somebody in the press that you want to have cover one of your clients? Why are they looking at what you send?

Matt Kovacs (17:09.519)
I think there’s a couple of things. One is, in many ways, we take an old school approach. We also take from a East Coast approach, if you will, being maybe a little more aggressive. I think I look at it as, A, it’s about relationships. So we really start, and I try and, again, train, educate, mentor about understanding the media that you’re talking to. So the, really, if I’m going to email you and pitch you from ClientX, I want to know, obviously I need to know what’s your beat, what do you cover, what are the last couple of articles you’ve written?

So I can have a better conversation. Say, Anthony, I love what you wrote about this. And this is where I think there’s a connection with this brand. I wanna make it relevant for you. So it doesn’t feel like I’m just spamming you that, on Monday, you got an email from Blaze that said, hey, we have a new restaurant opening up. On Tuesday, you got, hey, we have a new beverage coming. And you’re like, wait, you don’t even know what I do. And how’s it relevant to Columbus, Ohio? So you have to have all those aspects. That’s one layer.

We also dig deeper and it’s like, I wanna know more about you. What’s your birthday? What’s your anniversary? Do you have any kids? All those things that are relevant as well, because it’s about relationships. There’s trade shows we go to, hey, I’m gonna meet up with you and catch up. There’s ways that I think in many ways, PR can be very transactional. I sent you the release, you wrote about it, great. Do I ever come back to you? Do I ever talk to you? There’s times that we just wanna make that connection because that’s gonna help, obviously, in the long run. On the flip side, you’re gonna come to me and say, hey,

I saw that your brand, you know, something happened here or they closed the location. Can you tell me more? I can’t say, no, you know, Hey, no, I can’t talk to you. I only want to talk to you when it’s good stuff. You got back and forth and that we can have that relationship where, you know, you understand where I’m coming from, you know, but vice versa. So I think that’s where we’ve learned that in movies seen, that a lot of the, you know, when we come in and maybe take over an account that someone else had, they don’t, they never had that relationship with their brands. We try and really do that. I think the other thing is.

yes, the world’s much more digital now and Zooms and all that stuff. But when we can, I think getting in front of people, spending that time, if it’s a lunch, if it’s happy hour, coffee, whatever, having that personal connection, I think super important as well. And I think the other thing obviously is the results. It can’t be, yes, you can love us, we can be the nicest people, but if there’s no results, and I think that’s something we take from, and that’s more of that East Coast mentality, it’s okay.

Matt Kovacs (19:20.783)
We got you this article and I know they’re thinking it, but what’s next? And I think that’s how we try and drive the teams and internally how we do it. Not to the point where it’s, you know, everyone’s, you know, waking up with a gun to their head, but it’s more about, okay, what can we do? How can we keep this momentum going? And what are some interesting aspects? And obviously, you know, PR can, there’s so many fun layers to it, especially when we work in food and beverage and, and that type of things, there’s all those different national food holidays. There’s obviously different elements going on. So you can make things interesting in a way that’s relevant.

And then we always try and dig deeper in all the different stories. So obviously the CEO, the executives, their college, alumni magazines, whatever it is, you can go in so many different paths with PR. And I think that’s where they look at it, or at least existing brands to that point, why they want to work with Blaze.

Anthony Codispoti (20:06.052)
Tell me about how you got started with Blaze, Matt. How long you been there?

Matt Kovacs (20:09.519)
Yeah, so I’ve been here 12 years. You know, I’ve done my background has been, you know, marketing and PR my whole career. And, you know, I was brought on back about 12 years now. So, you know, it was interesting when I came on board, the challenge, if you will, of looking at this was coming to a boutique firm that had been around since 1990. So it had some legs to it and some notoriety, but it was still very much thought of a regional or even hyper local player. It did like the law office down the street. It did like the one restaurant that would open on the corner.

Bigger brands would come in and say, Hey, we’re doing an opening in your neighborhood. Can you do the PR around it for that? And my background was much more of national brands and brands of larger scope to drive a bigger story and to drive that larger narrative and storytelling. So that was how we looked at it and approached. And so was able to comb through and get, you know, look at the clients we didn’t really want anymore, bring in the more interesting, bigger clients. Also, you look at the team, you know, is it the right team that we need? You know, is it people that can think in that way? Are they much more?

focused and they’ve been there in a way that they were only worried about. Again, those five reporters I know that are based in Burbank, but I only need to worry about this. I don’t need to go outside of those four walls. So it was really the bigger thinking. And I think also the approach of people that are going to think broader and also beyond just what the client asks or even, hey, yes, it may be a QSR chain, but there’s business stories, there’s personal stories, there’s growth stories, there’s ways to think of it in that way.

So that was a big part of it. And as we’ve gone through now, it’s the 12 years, I think where we’re fortunate in having gone through the pandemic, obviously, is we went a lot of those best places to work. And culturally, I think that’s really important when you look at where we’ve come is to really have that aspect where it’s that, a big credo is there’s no drama. We have, as the Steelers would say, the standard is the standard. Here’s what we can do to really build that.

Anthony Codispoti (22:00.387)
You had to throw that out to a Browns fan, didn’t you? You just had to do it. All right.

Matt Kovacs (22:03.151)
I had to, I had to, yes. But I think that’s interesting and we’ve had that same core group for a while and clients see that and especially new people when they come on a Zoom with us, it might be three or four of us, but we all know each other’s strengths and who’s gonna speak to one part and who’s gonna make fun of the other one or whatever it is, but it looks like we’re part of that work family, if you will. And I think that’s where the cultural part really is interesting. And I think as, obviously as we hire new people, that’s what they’re really drawn to is the fact that we have that type of relationship and –

And we’re set up really hybrid now. You know, we’re in the office a couple of times a week and we have, you know, much more of the, that work life balance, if you will. But I think clients are the same way. You know, there’s some clients, I have a client in Toronto that said, I might never see you in person again. I love doing the, you know, I, we, the flights were always a pain in the ass and this is much more easier just to do zooms and we can have two or three calls a week like this. And we can go through the campaigns versus feeling like you have to spend that, you know, the, the trudge of, you know, going all the way there.

working through stuff and then you leave and you forget what you know some of the stuff so I think it’s been an interesting approach and I think we look at it as you know continuing that growth you know pattern and again we have two offices we’re in Santa Monica and Santa Barbara so beyond the hybrid culture building you have the two office building so we do Santa Barbara has their fiesta which is every August is their big celebration so we get all the employees together and we do a whole celebration there and then we obviously have our you know holiday parties and other types of things that we do so it’s a fun

group and I think we’ve put a nice team together.

Anthony Codispoti (23:32.483)
So I want to go back several years when you first came into Blaze, because it sounds like you have a lot of work cut out for you, right? Like you kind of retooled the client base. And we’re going to talk more about some of your clients now, because they’re big, either regional or nationwide brands that people would recognize. It sounds like you probably had to do some retooling on the staff side, too. I mean, those are the two big parts of the business that you’ve

came in and completely, sounds like reinvented, but it had to have been kind of a choppy transition initially, I would imagine.

Matt Kovacs (24:06.767)
It did. Yeah. I think, you know, when, you know, my previous life, the, you know, clients in India were with the one credo was always, you know, life’s too short for shitty clients. And I came in and one of the first calls I had with a client, the guy was swearing like crazy at us, like you guys, you know, F this and you F that. And it was, and I said, Hey, time out. I know I’m the new guy, but I don’t understand, you know, where’s this vitriol coming from and what’s, you know, what, did we do something wrong? Is there something in our scope that we’re not doing? Is there something, you know, expectation wise?

And he wasn’t able to articulate it. It was probably just the way he managed people in groups and everything like that. And so I was like, I don’t think, you know, we stopped the call. I said, this isn’t the type of call we need to have. And then it was that discussion of, you know, Hey, I don’t think we’re the right agency for you then, because we’re doing what you asked and you may want something different or more, but it’s just not the right fit. So there were those sets of discussions and those are tough because that’s revenue that you’re turning down. But it also, you need to, I mean, you know, you have to win the.

Anthony Codispoti (24:58.465)

Matt Kovacs (25:02.959)
the team has to know that you’re supporting them and that they don’t have that type of relationship with a client. And then also, I think the then going, you know, you go client by client, you go team member by team member to understand what are their goals? What do they want to do? What are they trying to achieve? And also who’s performing, who was sort of coasting by, you know, there were groups that had been in the company for, you know, 10, 15 years that there was just that where we were going just really wasn’t for them. So it was really working with them to make sure, Hey, you know,

probably not going to work out. Let’s help sort of look for new opportunities for you in that regard. So it was those types of discussions. While you’re still trying to, you know, we change our website, you know, you change all your collateral, your marketing, the way you go through that perspective. And then I think also the paradigm shift of having more centralized client relations. There were a lot of just sort of disparate, just different groups that are talking to clients. And you might have one client that in the same agency, there were three different calls going on.

Where that again, we’re all billable hours. So those things didn’t make sense either. So it’s really looking at how can we be more efficient? Because then the client’s dime, they want us to be as efficient as we can to make sure that we’re performing. And also we need to have the investment of time needs to make money. So it were those types of things that carried through. And then I think the, as we tighten those things up, the presentations and the external, you know, performance to prospective clients came across, I think in a better way as well. So you saw that sort of happen.

as one, you know, whatever door closed, the windows would open, all those things happened at the same time. But I think it was an important step. And, you know, we still stay in touch. I know my Santa Barbara office with a number of previous employees and previous clients, too. I think they’ve seen as we’ve grown and have been watching the outside. So it’s an interesting approach.

Anthony Codispoti (26:48.224)
You told me before we started just off air, I forget the exact words you used, but you’re kind of a collection of PR nerds or PR geeks. Are there sort of like individual silos where this guy is really great at influencer marketing, this woman’s really great at traditional media contacts, are you guys kind of like broken up like that or are you more generalists?

Matt Kovacs (27:11.471)
I think it’s, I’ll say everyone has that, I’d say a percentage of their time or their emphasis, but really across the board, we’ve become much more of that team approach. So we’re all pitching, we’re all involved in those aspects. Yes, there are some people better at the PR stunt ideas. Some people are better at just that, drafting that perfect pitch to someone. But I think what we’ve done is by centralizing that, it’s become much more aligned with the brand goals.

So we can have a variety of clients. We have a lithium mining company, we have a number of beverages, we have retailers. But again, if you have the PR 101 basics and be, you know, understand that, then we can, you know, tap into people’s different strengths. And I think that’s where it’s looked at from a team approach and not every team member is on every account. Obviously there’s different sizes and scopes, but we look at it in that regard of what’s going to be the best for each brand. And some people are brought in for different aspects. If we have an event going on, there’s more of an event team that has that experience.

and can do that and have those relationships. So we look at it in that regard. And also, I think that was part of that evolution so that there was much more of that generalist approach. So a client wasn’t confused when they would call and like, Hey, I get ahold of you, but you don’t know what I, you know, this other call was about or what’s going on with the account. By having that team approach and those types of singular focus and shared drives and shared info, you were able to have a deeper understanding of what the scope was and the expectations, which made it better for everyone.

Anthony Codispoti (28:37.984)
So you guys won Inc. Best Places to Work awards multiple times. You kind of touched on some of the things that you’re doing that would sort of contribute to that. You mentioned some of the parties and the social activities that you do, the work -life balance, work from home, showing the employees you’ve got their back, firing a client who is belligerent. What are some of the things that we haven’t already touched on that you guys are doing really well?

Matt Kovacs (29:03.215)
I think the one thing that has really worked well, and part of it is the onboarding, but then that carries through the culture, is when people come on board, and it was something we implemented probably about eight or nine years ago now, is really the aspect of when someone starts, obviously you have your first day onboarding and all that stuff, but then we do, we have a one week check -in, two weeks, 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, 90 days, 120 days. So you’re giving the handholding of a new employee, a new associate,

But it’s also, it’s not about like, Hey, let’s go through all your account work. It’s not like a review. It’s more about that. How’s it going? Is there anything we can do? You know, is this working? You know, how are things working? What do you need? You know, is your, you know, when you’re in the office, it’s much more of like a hotel now where you, whatever desks you get to, you work out of for the day. And it’s not like you have an assigned seat, but it’s really getting people to understand their place within the, in the company. And also trying to make sure that they have relationships beyond just, you know, their pay to pay supervisor or their account teams that they’re on.

It’s more about bringing that to life. And I think that’s helped in the culture overall, because you’re getting deeper mentoring and deeper relationships as you start. And it doesn’t feel forced or it doesn’t feel like there’s an issue or problem. You’ve built that type of relationship. And again, three, four months time versus some of the times that you may only talk to your supervisor at that level, maybe for your review or your biannual review or something. This was really to understand what people thought. And I think that’s been a big factor in helping us get the ability to work.

Anthony Codispoti (30:31.231)
Are there particular industries that you guys are stronger in?

Matt Kovacs (30:35.822)
I think we’re known on one level in the beverage category. We have about 15 or 20 beverage clients, which is great. That was my background. So we really understand that not only the category, the customer, the retailers, the buyer, all that sort of nuance is there. And I’d say the history and heritage of Blaze, and we’ve carried that through, is really in the hospitality, restaurants, and really QSR these days, and fast casual. So if you look at the two buckets, it’s going to be the beverage and the QSR.

Anthony Codispoti (31:03.166)
Who are some of the beverage clients that you can mention?

Matt Kovacs (31:06.479)
Yeah, I think you know, it’s interesting the in it goes from all the different sort of layers So pickle juice is a fun client. They are the little electrolyte shots that you know, they’re anti cramping So yes, obviously from a athletic and fitness standpoint is a big part of this ultra marathoners, etc But as you know, the the climate is changing and all the massive heat you’re seeing it much more in the construction industry you’re seeing it for obviously You know the the elderly as they get cramps in general if you have a Charlie horse in the middle of the night

It’s this, really the formula and it is scientifically proven that it really helps the neurological. It’s not, see, that’s the thing. It’s not browning through the manufacturing and the actual development of it. It has that sort of vinegar -esque sort of taste and flavor. And within that, there was always the, the brine is supposed to have these mythical, you know, powers from pickle juice, but this actually has the science behind it. There’s white papers, et cetera. So.

Anthony Codispoti (31:41.15)
Is it actual pickle juice? Okay.

Matt Kovacs (32:03.087)
that’s something that I think is fun with. We also work on Electrolyt, which is the, hydration beverage out of Mexico. it’s the number three in the space right now. So the other thing that we carry through is we work with a number of challenger brands. So they’re going to be, you know, two, three, four in their category. They’re going to have to work a little bit harder. Their marketing dollars are probably a little less than the number ones, but that what we love them is that they, we have a lot more freedom. We can do stunts. We can do, like for pickle juice every year, we do a big April full stunt.

We have different elements around it. This past year, we did the pickle juice bath salt line. So you’d have the bath bomb that you could put into your bath and you’d be getting the anti -crimping all over. So these stunts that are funny, media buy it. Radio stations were calling the interview, the CEO to talk about it, but it was April Fool’s. And as you get those things, they can take that chance and have fun with their brand. And I think that’s a good factor for it. And you look at it from, and I know we touched on it before, but.

Kavita, Sparkling Probiotic was a client from inception through Pepsi acquired them. And I had come in my background too, I was worked on Honest Tea and Coke acquired them. And then we had Teocaspacho, which was a cold brewed soup and then Campbell’s soup acquired them. So to those points of in the beverage category, we have that playbook of taking people through, you know, that those big spikes of interest, awareness and media and really owning it so that they get in front of the, you know, the acquisition stage.

Anthony Codispoti (33:30.205)
You’ve got the real Midas touch it sounds like.

Matt Kovacs (33:32.975)
I think it’s like we’ve talked about, it’s that playbook and it’s that hustle that I think keeps it going that we really look at it from, you’re only as good as your last placement, you have to really keep that going. And it’s back to the point of the relationships, client side and the media side that you can go back to them and have those aspects when you need to tap into them and when you need that coverage to happen.

Anthony Codispoti (33:52.54)
What are some of the other fun stunts that you’ve done? I love the pickle juice one.

Matt Kovacs (33:57.071)
Yeah, I think another good one we did, and this was, I’ll date myself, but with Honest Tea, and this was a number of years ago, was the Honest City campaign. So this was playing off of obviously Honest Tea and Honest Tea. We set up these Honest Tea stations in seven markets. So it was racks of Honest Tea, unmanned stations, about 20 yards away was a hidden camera. So you could see, and it had a little box that said, leave a dollar and you could take a bottle. You wanted to see which city was the most honest.

Anthony Codispoti (34:24.796)

Matt Kovacs (34:25.487)
And it was at Wall Street, it was at Santa Monica Pier, it was in Chicago and Michigan Avenue. So you were able to see which city, you know, would actually left money there. Santa Monica was the least honest. Now, part of the reason to talk about that was there are a lot of tourists that, you know, when they just took it. Wall Street actually was really more high performing than we would have thought. But there were a couple in the videos, a couple of times the police put in like 20 bucks. So they saw people were taking it, but maybe didn’t understand.

But Chicago was the most honest, which is like cliche because it’s Midwest. Yeah, exactly. That people were there. But those types of things go far. And I think they help brands that you don’t always have to work focus on. You don’t have a new flavor. You don’t have a new story to tell. It’s the same old, same old. So these stunts can help build those things. And look, that’s where the food holiday things come in. There’s ways to really create news. And we look at it from that standpoint. Or if it’s…

Anthony Codispoti (34:54.94)

Matt Kovacs (35:17.615)
data, if there’s surveys, if there’s analytics that we can pull and use as part of our media approach as well.

Anthony Codispoti (35:23.324)
That’s interesting. Let’s talk about the QSR space, quick service restaurants, because you mentioned that’s another one that you’re particularly strong in. Tell us why you’re well suited for that.

Matt Kovacs (35:27.119)
Yeah. Yep.

Matt Kovacs (35:32.527)
Yeah, I think again, the history of Blaze was really in that space. So a number of the regional players that they worked on at that local level. But so we’ve worked on a number of them on that national level. So currently we work with Oneahoe and Barbecue. There are 120 plus locations. Chronic Tacos is almost about 75 and they’re nationwide. And then you have Health Nut, which is a funny one because they’re at about seven locations.

but they got their notoriety from the Kardashians show. So their original location was by their, where the Kardashians are in Calabasas. And it’s the whole salad shake thing that became this whole phenomenon, maybe about five, six years ago, but they’ve had a lot. And now the Kardashians invest in the brand. So you have those types of elements. And again, we take from that, you know, playbook of the traditional media. So obviously with store openings, with restaurant reviews, people understanding what the brand is. We have the,

Influencers is such a big part of restaurants now. It’s getting those foodies to come in, try the food, take all those great food porn videos and stories and cut the sandwich in half and show what it looks like and all those elements. And then for products, a good example where they had a built -in stunt they were doing already, but we helped elevate it. They do the taco reading contest. So they have a Kobayashi that would come from Japan and it would be…

I go a stage of 10, taco eating, people going up against each other and Kobayashi would eat like about 150 tacos and minutes and see street tacos. And it’s on one level, it’s like the car crash that you can’t not look away. You have to see it. There’s, you know, slop everywhere. They’re eating it. It’s just a whole aspect, but if it’s the brand, the brand is that, you know, Southern California vibe and just that element around it. And they talk a lot about the taco life in the, aspects. So that’s the ways that we build into that.

But also I think we understand business aspects. So, Brown & Tacos is a franchise model. So, making sure we’re in all the franchise books. They’re at the different conferences, they’re in the right podcasts. They’re telling a story about being an investor, why you’d want to be involved in this brand. Ono is a private company, you know, with their locations. So, we’re looking at much more of the development growth, the business stories, what they’re doing in the community, how they’re, you know, good corporate citizen, how they’re bringing in, you know, new jobs and new elements. They were opening, you know,

Matt Kovacs (37:47.535)
All throughout the summer of 2020, the pandemic’s raging in Ono’s opening location, Fresno and Phoenix and all that. So they were… Yes, yeah. And a lot of that was, again, they’re hyper organized, their operations department where they were so far along in a lot of these places, they were able to open, they were permitted, all those things. So you’re seeing the ways that we can tap into that from a PR standpoint, it’s really being aligned into that original point I talked about, I think is that we listen.

Anthony Codispoti (37:51.13)

and in California even, which was really closed down.

Matt Kovacs (38:13.327)
We understand what clients are interested in. Chronic, yes, all the food stuff, the porn, all that stuff’s great, but they need to get more franchises. They need to be in front of potential franchisees. And so there’s different aspects that I think are important. And I think just the respect and also the understanding from food media that we come at it from that standpoint of we understand that obviously there’s a lot of different restaurants out there. There’s different trends that go on. Not every restaurant, recorder, eater, all those guys are going to care about our brands.

But there’s ways we can come to them with interesting stories. And to that point, we’re pitching them on things that are relevant at the right time, at the right, you know, storylines that we can be an asset for what they’re trying to do versus pitching them, you know, it’s whatever national ice cream month. And we’re trying to tell them about spam a subi. You know, we’re not hitting the right things. And then you look like you’re just a spammer yourself and you’re not, you know, respecting that. And we also look for ways, you know, to invite them to different, you know, private events, private tastings, meet the chef.

those things I think that are relevant for reporters to be able to do that in a way, even though, you know, it’s a digital world now and there’s different elements to it, but I think we can tap into that in a way that maybe other agencies don’t.

Anthony Codispoti (39:22.81)
So would it be accurate to say that, depending on what a client’s goals are, for example, you’re working with Honest Tea, obviously they want to sell more tea, right? And they want to get more distribution, and so that’s part of what you’re working on. But they’ve got this end goal of wanting to be acquired. Are you simultaneously trying to get article placements in front of the eyeballs of people who might be in a position to acquire them? Or does that just happen organically on its own?

Matt Kovacs (39:48.527)
I think, well, the strategy is then to be in the books, you know, the Wall Street journals, New York times, the Bloomberg’s places where those people would be more apt to be, you know, reading or interested, also making sure that they have relationships and shepherding it with the different analysts that are looking at the category and they can go deeper and understand where they fit in that category and that they’re being mentioned and talked about in those circles. Cause that’s not the general consumer would never see those things. You know, you’d have to dig deep. And even if you Googled the brand’s name and it would be, you know,

at a different place than a consumer probably look. That’s the ways that we try and look at it from whatever their goals are. And look, goals change. We work with a brand, their startup, their entrepreneur, they just want to grow, grow, grow. But then it does come to a point of, do I want to be acquired or do I need more investment? Then you look at how that yardstick can shift and where we can pull more of our hours to really hit those types of books, interviews, opportunities.

Anthony Codispoti (40:40.985)
So for people listening, maybe they’ve got a brand, they’ve got a company that they’re interested in some PR services, they’re wondering if maybe Blaze might be a good fit for them. What would you say? What are sort of the boxes that need to be checked for them to be a good, you guys to be a good fit for each other, I should say?

Matt Kovacs (40:57.167)
Yeah, I think, you know, and we do, you know, any number of times when we do a prospecting call, you know, A is always chemistry. You know, do we, do we connect with them? Do we fit? Is there a good, you know, response back and forth? You know, they may have a lot of questions, which is great, but if they’re not listening or if they’re distracted or if they’re not buying what we’re selling, you just know it’s not going to work. And so I think that’s one factor that we look at. Also, I think track records, obviously, we have a number of case studies and all those things we share, but also,

understanding what, you know, if this is a serial entrepreneur, if we know we’ve seen a track record, we look at obviously the, the players involved on the call. If they’ve jumped to like 50 different jobs, like, are they going to really be a good, you know, trusted member on the other side? are they hyper, you know, are they green? You know, are we going to be educating them, which can be great because you’re investing in them as well. So it’s that type of, element we do. I think also is it newsworthy just because you want to have a PR agency doesn’t mean we can understand what’s our struggle going to be. What’s the.

You know, the output, what are the things we’re going to have to do and what are the things we need from you? Because there is a time commitment, obviously, at least, you know, on the startup side, we need to become really experts in your brand before we start to externally tell the world about your brand. And a lot of times, your clients can be, hey, how much time do I need to give you? Like, it could be just a couple hours to start. Like, well, yeah, but we need probably more than that as we get going, we need approvals. We need to make sure you’re comfortable with that we have your voice. And if we’re telling people what’s going on, that you’re not going to be shocked because…

even if it’s one mention of something that you approved it and that you remember that you approved it. So that’s a factor that we look at when we engage.

Anthony Codispoti (42:32.536)
Here’s some common mistakes that people make when it comes to PR.

Matt Kovacs (42:37.135)
I think the one that I think stands out and back to your point of the gray science of PR. PR is not a direct source medium. It’s not like, Hey, I ran an ad. I paid a thousand dollars. I got 10 calls and we had $2 ,000 worth of business. So here’s my ROI equation. PR is much more brand building. It’s about that third party validation. You can say how great you are with an ad, but this is a way for someone else to say, Hey, this brand was great. And here’s all the reasons why. So you have that attribution that happens.

And it’s also, I think PR can be cost effective because you can go into all those different categories and different angles to pitch within a media landscape. But if people are thinking that it’s going to, all of a sudden sales are going to start rolling in because we got all these articles. It’s part of the marketing matrix, if you will. You’ll have your, again, your advertising, your social media, your PR. So there’s ways that we work together and in concert together, but it’s not the end all be all.

Anthony Codispoti (43:31.192)
I’m curious, there has to have been some campaigns that you were really excited about that you pitched the client and they turned down.

Do you think of any that you’re like, man, I wish we could have run with that. Maybe it was a crazy stunt or something.

Matt Kovacs (43:44.559)
You know, I think, I would say, and I can’t think of a singular one offhand, but I think in many ways there are stunts that we get excited about that we can see and we envision and we say, okay, you know, these 10 reporters would love to write about it. It’s topical. It’s in, you know, it’s something that can be executable. It may not be a lot of, you know, the investment isn’t going to be that much. There’s going to be a way that we’ll be able to merchandise it for future opportunities because, you know, they can do it and then we can take it forward. And I think sometimes there’s,

just the reticence of clients not wanting to take that step or be the one that raises their hand and puts their neck out on the line. And I think a stunt does that, where if you’re going to say, I’m doing a PR stunt, there’s a lot of factors internally that people get nervous about. They may think it’s going to be something that’s legal or whatever, but as you walk them through, it’s back to that point of education. It’s the factor of what you’re doing that’s not of the norm within your day -to -day PR outreach or even marketing outreach. So I think as we’ve done that, I think we’ve done a better job.

selling your sons internally for brands because of that, you know, reticence in the past. And I’m just thinking, this isn’t my brand. I can’t do that.

Anthony Codispoti (44:52.344)
For those people who are listening that maybe are just getting started out, they don’t have the budget to work with somebody like Blaze. What kind of advice can you get them? Maybe some low -hanging fruit that will help their brand get a little momentum in the PR space.

Matt Kovacs (45:07.439)
Yeah, I think, you know, we look at it as, you know, again, could you, you know, Anthony, reach out to your local reporter and pitch them? Of course. You know, it’s not like that we have this hidden wall or these hidden elements. We do have, again, maybe databases of someone’s Gmail or their home address, et cetera. But I think the aspect is you’re looking at the relationships, but I think there’s ways that as you’re getting started, there are peoples that could be, you know, single proprietor shops.

that could be worthwhile and also understanding the framework of how PR works. There is the, you have your pitch or your release or whatever that you send out. There’s not an immediate response. A lot of people expect, if I email them, the reporter’s gonna get back to me right away. No, they have their own job. And so much of it back to the point of the shrinking media pool, there’s a number of reporters we know that they work on, they might do the weekly restaurant column. They have to cover pets. They have to cover.

retail like their minds are so far ahead because they’re covering so many different aspects. So yes, they eventually do get to some of the emails and I wouldn’t even ask them to get back to everyone. But it’s also understanding that there are it is another person on the other line you’re trying to pitch. And so I think there’s ways to do it. I think social media is a great way for brands to start to be able to tell that story in a way that they can control and then point people back to. I think it’s interesting. And then also,

you look at it, it’s becoming more, I think, influential is through LinkedIn, making sure that your brand’s LinkedIn business page has all this information because so many different ways, be it media, recruitment, new hires, people go there that I think it’s often this look. And I think there’s a way that that investment can be put into that can help for a broader PR strategy.

Anthony Codispoti (46:47.031)
Well second, the LinkedIn, making sure that your LinkedIn profile is complete and up to date. You know, as I’m researching a guest, you know, do I want to invite them to come on or maybe, you know, they’ve booked and I want to learn a little bit more about them. I find oftentimes the information on LinkedIn is a lot more digestible than their website. You know, website is sort of trying to sell something, here’s a menu, here’s a, you know, and that’s great for the end consumer, but right, I want to understand a little bit more about, you know, succinctly describe the business and so.

Matt Kovacs (47:09.839)

Anthony Codispoti (47:16.342)
Yeah, I think people who aren’t taking advantage of that are kind of missing. It’s one of those low -hanging fruit that’s helpful. I’m curious, Matt, how do you guys promote your own brand? How are you prospecting? Is it just to the point where it’s all word of mouth now? Or are you?

Matt Kovacs (47:31.311)
I think there’s a couple of things. A, word of mouth, yes, always super important. I think, obviously, from a networking standpoint and going to different events and being engaged that way, making sure we’re involved. I think we do, in the digital age, we do the Google ads. We make sure that we’re promoting our brand that way for people looking for agencies. We do a lot on LinkedIn, so we do a number of LinkedIn campaigns. And then I think the last thing we do is obviously promote ourselves, such as doing this podcast.

doing a lot of the general PR, so making sure we’re in the roundups and we’re being asked on those PR issues that we have a voice as well. And I think that’s where people see that, yes, we’re obviously working on brands, but we also do remember to promote ourselves. And I think that’s a good way to do it. And also the best places to work, all those things do have a PR layer to it. And I think those are things that we tap into as well.

Anthony Codispoti (48:21.814)
You know, we’ve had several guests on here that are in the franchise space. A lot of them in the quick service restaurant space, other types of franchises. Yeah, and right, this is a great vehicle for them to kind of give voice to what their brand’s doing, what makes it really good, talk about the franchising opportunity. So each of the three QSRs that you mentioned earlier that you guys are servicing now, are they all open to franchising opportunities?

Matt Kovacs (48:48.815)
Chronic is the only one that’s franchise -based. Yeah, the other ones are not, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (48:54.165)
So all of those, they’re just all corporate owned locations. And so when you said that they’re private, that’s what you meant by private, is that, okay.

Matt Kovacs (48:57.679)
Correct, yep, yeah.

Yes, I’m sorry, corporate owned. Yes. Yeah. And then the other thing is we’ve worked on like Mayweather boxing gyms. They were franchise based. We have gold gym, which is franchise. So outside of the QSR, we have that franchise DNA, if you will.

Anthony Codispoti (49:15.541)
And you’re are you doing things then to just in general promote the concept or are you specifically targeting audiences of people you know maybe you know former CEOs of companies that have now retired and you know they want to they’re looking for a franchise to buy are you you know specifically targeting folks like that for them?

Matt Kovacs (49:34.543)
It’s back to the point. So it’s promoting the brand and the concept, but then looking at it from like the AARP magazines, like looking for publications, media that would be where people would go to look at franchise ops and those different articles. Look, you know, the LA times will have one where it’s here’s, you know, if you’re interested in doing, you know, getting in on a franchise, here’s 10 examples. We want to make sure, you know, again, the relationship with the reporter, the awareness of our brands and knowing what it, you know, the who’s and what’s so that they can come to us and say, Hey, we’re doing this roundup with chronic. Want to be involved?

So there’s ways that you have that type of relationship that you’re building for future stories.

Anthony Codispoti (50:08.245)
Matt, you’ve obviously been in the PR space for a number of years. You’ve accumulated a lot of wisdom and knowledge along the way. I’m curious, what’s something that you wish you could teach a younger version of yourself that would make your path easier?

Matt Kovacs (50:22.127)
Probably not easier, but I think that obviously the institutional knowledge I have now, if I could translate that back to, I think you said the younger self, I think that discipline and just that knowledge and really being a student of the game, if you will, that’s something I probably missed where it would have been great through the years. Because I feel like that’s, it’s that whole 10 ,000 hours philosophy. And I think as you hit that, all these things start to click into place where you have that type of understanding that,

Again, it comes with knowledge and from experience, but I think that would be great to share that to my younger self.

Anthony Codispoti (50:56.532)
is just that idea of, hey, you got to put in the reps. Is that what you’re getting at? Like.

Matt Kovacs (51:01.103)
The reps, but also, yeah, the elements of the being on that front end of change and the aspects around it and understanding, again, having gone through the dot com worlds and the media changing and shifting, being a part of that. So I’ve learned a lot since then, but I think knowing that on the front end would have been interesting.

Anthony Codispoti (51:20.372)
What’s a fun fact that most people don’t know about you, Matt?

Matt Kovacs (51:24.047)
I don’t know if it’s a fun fact, but I had six knee surgeries, so I missed a lot of high school. So I was sort of the new kid every year. So that was a fun element that having to come to school at the beginning of every year and almost reintroduce yourself, it was all… No, knee surgeries. These were old school surgeries where you would be out of commission for like three, four months. Yeah, it was all baseball injuries. Yeah, so it was dumb. Dumb stuff, but that’s a fun fact.

Anthony Codispoti (51:37.972)
You were the new kid because you were moving or because of the knee surgeries.

Anthony Codispoti (51:50.067)
You had six different knee surgeries all from baseball injuries. Were these from sliding? Like what was going on?

Matt Kovacs (51:53.615)
Yes, yes.

It was a catcher and it was just sort of the wear and tear and then it was yeah just ACLs and you know you just tear it up and then you know at the time there were just different surgeries you would do so it wasn’t just the it was right before the all the arthroscopies so yeah. So I don’t know if it’s fun but that’s a fact.

Anthony Codispoti (52:12.915)
Do you have a fun one? Maybe we could layer over top of that one. Okay, that’s what you got. All right. How about any specific mentors, books, or learning experiences that have been particularly helpful to you in your career?

Matt Kovacs (52:17.679)
No, I think that’s I think we leave it at that. Let’s go again. Yes.

Matt Kovacs (52:29.231)
Yeah, I think that the 10 ,000 hours, you know, the Malcolm Gladwell is really interesting to reference and go back on and really speak to. My daughter had to study that book in one of her classes this year. She’s a junior in high school. And so it was interesting to revisit that again, having read it a couple of times and really talk through it as a family to really understand that. So I think that’s one that has been, you know, that sticks by me in that regard.

Anthony Codispoti (52:36.179)
from the tipping point.

Anthony Codispoti (52:54.387)
Matt, in a competitive job market, recruiting and retaining employees can be really challenging. You guys have obviously done a really good job of retaining folks with the awards of Inc.’s best places to work. I’m curious, what is the strategy that you use to actually find those good folks? Is it, hey, it’s got to be a referral from somebody that’s already here? Is it, we’re still using the same, the job boards and whatever else that everybody else is using? What have you found that has worked well for you?

Matt Kovacs (53:22.927)
I think there’s a couple of things I think, you know, and also I think it’s everything because I think these days, you know, trying to recruit, retain, and just the flips through the pandemic of just, you know, who’s on the winning side? Is it the employee, the employers, et cetera? So I think, you know, we start with that, you know, growing from within. So with interns that we’re able to hire and bring on board that way. I think the other thing is I went to USC, so really have strong alumni, you know, connections at the Annenberg PR school. So really using that as a pipeline.

is important. And we have a number of Trojans that come through. I think the other thing is the, that’s your point that word of mouth, but also in the PR circles within LA, you know, there are a number of agencies. There’s a lot of the entertainment agencies as cliche as that is being in LA. Well, you know, again, we’re a different animal in LA, but we really don’t touch the entertainment side. So again, having the lifestyle and the CPG and all that stuff. So it’s as people look at it from that regard, as well. So I think we try and market it to your point, the best places to work, be in the LA business journal, you know, all those things that we can have.

a different lens versus the other agencies we’re competing against.

Anthony Codispoti (54:25.875)
Matt, I have just one more question for you, but before I do, I want to just do two things. First of all, if you’re listening today and you like today’s content, please hit the subscribe, like, or share button on your favorite podcast app. Matt, I also want to tell people how to get in touch with you. They’re listening, they like your story, they want to connect with you, maybe about working together, maybe about something else. What’s the best way for them to reach out?

Matt Kovacs (54:48.015)
I think always, obviously the website and the easiest is just info at blazepr .com. And then LinkedIn, I think is always a great one as well.

Anthony Codispoti (54:55.859)
Great, we’ll include those links in the show notes. So last question for you, Matt. I’m kind of curious, how do you see your industry evolving in the next five years? What do you think the big changes are that are coming?

Matt Kovacs (55:06.607)
I think the big one and it’s starting is all through AI. I think we’re seeing so much of the AI and it’s interesting because there’s some agencies that I’ve met and I’ve been to different events that they don’t know about it, touch it, think it’s going to happen. And then I’m probably in the middle, but then there’s the doom and gloom people that are like, you know, we’re going to be out of jobs any day now. The AI can write the release. Once they figure out how to send it to the media that becomes AI and all this, but I think AI is a big part of it. You’re already seeing it within, you know, in look, some of the

Anthony Codispoti (55:18.449)

Matt Kovacs (55:35.759)
People that apply for jobs, they might do like an AI cover letter. You can tell like they’re using a lot of descriptive words. You’re seeing it with some press releases. So I think AI is a big part of where PR is going. And I think, but what we’ve talked about is there’s still the human element. But again, reporters can see through that. There’s ways that you still need to have the news and understand what a journalist’s role is. So I think that’s where the AI is not there yet. Will it get there? Probably. But I think AI is the biggest thing that’s going to be really good.

Anthony Codispoti (56:04.561)
You know, I know in my own work I use some different AI tools to assist me in writing something. It’s like, hey, I’ve got this. I want to put it in a little bit of a different voice or, you know, I just, I need a different way to say the same thing. But what I found that it’s not great at is being funny or creative. You know, it’s like, hey, let me feed you, and I’ve tried this, like, hey, let me feed you an ad campaign, you know, that another brand did.

I think was really clever and we want to borrow from that. You know, can you come up with a similar idea for us? And it’s similar, right? You’re like, like that technology, it sort of understood what I was saying, but it’s not good. Like it’s not something that I would go forward with. It’s not something that if I happen to be a marketing or a PR company that I would feel good about pitching to a client because it’s very…

Matt Kovacs (57:00.879)
Really? Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (57:01.873)
Sophomore isn’t even the right word. It doesn’t even reach that level, in my opinion. I’m curious from your experience, is that what you see too?

Matt Kovacs (57:05.999)

100%, yeah. I think on the PR side, and look, we’ve all tested it. We’ve said, hey, here’s Brand X right in this voice. Here’s their tagline and you’ll have fun with the release. And they can craft it. They can give you the format. They understand that part. It doesn’t get the context and there’s just the, it feels like it’s just off a little bit to your point. It doesn’t get the humor. Chronic Taco is an example. Taco Life, they don’t understand what that means.

And they’re trying to make it that like, you know, those types of things are connected somehow. And I think in many ways it can be good as a starter. Hey, you know, draft me this and then you can go in and pick through it versus starting with a blank page. But no, there’s not the confidence that it’s going to be the end all be all. But again, as it’s learning and changing all the time, I’m sure it’ll eventually get there. But I think it is interesting to see how it is. But I think back to my original thing, it’s amazing how many people have this zero awareness of what, how to use it, where to go, how to.

how do you even use it as a tool?

Anthony Codispoti (58:09.457)
It’s surprising to me to hear you say that some of your peers in the PR space are just not even aware of it. Like haven’t touched it, dabbled with it, you know, that’s real surprising.

Matt Kovacs (58:19.278)
Yeah, and I’m fine with that. Let them stay away from it. I’ll keep doing it, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (58:23.504)
You’ll marry the two worlds, because I think you’re right. I think there’s always going to be the human element. Even as the AI gets better, even as it’s able to write better releases, there’s still going to be that relationship part of it. And the overall strategy that I question whether it’ll ever be able to handle those. Is that pickle juice?

Matt Kovacs (58:26.543)

Matt Kovacs (58:46.383)
It was a little pickle juice, you’re right, yeah. We had the, the heat is starting to come, so there’s some cramping today, so I’m making sure I have, I’m fully pickled up.

Anthony Codispoti (58:56.111)
Great. Well, hey, Matt, I want to be the first one to thank you so much for sharing your story today. I really appreciate it.

Matt Kovacs (59:02.095)
Thank you, this was fun, great to meet you.

Anthony Codispoti (59:04.463)
Folks, that’s a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories Podcast. Thanks for learning with us today.